HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

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commodorejohn
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HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by commodorejohn » Wed Jun 06, 2018 10:38 pm

So I picked up this nice little PA-RISC pizza box a while back just on a whim, mostly because I wanted to see what its unique "filtered 8-bit" video mode looked like. Since I have beefier hardware for investigating HP-UX, and the more recent BSDs don't seem to get along with the 712s very well, I figured "what the hell" and decided to try running NEXTSTEP on it. I had some trouble with that initially because it would boot into the installer fine, get everything all set up, then get confused and hang during boot post-install; turned out that the installer helpfully set up /etc/fstab on the assumption that the hard disk would show up at /dev/sd0* when in fact the CD-ROM drive ended up there. Thankfully, removing the CD-ROM drive kicked the hard drive over to where it was expected to be and everything went smoothly after that.

So anyway, I now have a functioning NEXTSTEP 3.3 install on the machine. The filtered video mode looks surprisingly good - I was expecting more noticeable blurring, but at 1280x1024 it's mostly pretty subtle and at worst looks like minor JPEG artifacting, and it definitely smooths out dithered images nicely. The only problems I have now are A. figuring out how the hell networking works in this system (it seems to have a similar issue to SunOS where it doesn't know what to do with itself if there's no NIS server available, but it also can't seem to contact the router regardless, so I'm not entirely sure how to proceed from there. Need to read up on this some more...) and B. getting some actual software on this thing, beyond just the demos. Aggravatingly, the development tools appear to be missing from the install CD, at least with the CD image available on WinWorldPC. Does anybody know where I can get the PA-RISC versions of these?
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Kilpatrick Phenol, Behringer Model D

jpstewart
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Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canada

Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by jpstewart » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:55 am

The developer tools were on a separate CD (about 400MB in size). I have the RISC version of the CD which should have the developer tools for both the SPARC and PA-RISC versions of NeXTStep. (I've run the SPARC version on my SS20.) Unfortunately, I don't know what format the CD is in, so I can't read it at the moment to verify its contents. Give me a couple of days....

As for real software, there are some things that are available for download. They were commercial products but these ones are now available for free from their original authors: I'm not sure how much of the stuff will run on RISC hardware, but I think the first two do. You'll probably have sift through the stuff at the third site to find what you need.

I forget where I got those links, but probably from the forums at http://www.nextcomputers.org/forums/. If you haven't been there yet, you should. They're the experts on NeXT, including on RISC hardware.
SGI: Indigo, Indigo2, Octane, Origin 300
Sun: SPARCstation 20, Ultra 2, Blade 2500, T5240
HP: 9000/380, 425e, C8000
Digital: DECstation 5000/125

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commodorejohn
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Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by commodorejohn » Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:11 pm

As far as I understand it, NEXTSTEP CDs are rather like IRIX CDs in that they use the OS's native BSD FFS or derivative, so ISO browsers tend to get confused by them. I'm picking up some hints from some sites that the Developer CDs should be multi-architecture, so I'm going to try that, but if you get the chance to image that disc, that'd be super great.

I remember reading about the SPARC version...isn't that actually a set of libraries that install on top of Solaris or something?

As far as other software goes, that nextcomputers.org collection and the similar but slightly expanded collection at http://ftp.nice.ch/pub/next/ have a lot more stuff than I was anticipating, and I'm pleasantly surprised how much of it was built including PA-RISC binaries :) Thankfully, networking set up was surprisingly easy - someone put together a nice straightforward guide at http://tntluoma.com/files/TjLs-Cable-Mo ... XTStep.pdf - so I can just FTP things over, which is nice. Now I just need to get OmniWeb set up and see if I can post from it...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Kilpatrick Phenol, Behringer Model D

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miod
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Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by miod » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:04 pm

commodorejohn wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:11 pm
I remember reading about the SPARC version...isn't that actually a set of libraries that install on top of Solaris or something?
No, it's a standalone operating system.

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commodorejohn
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Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by commodorejohn » Thu Jun 07, 2018 2:36 pm

Ah. If my only 32-bit SPARC box weren't already running SunOS I might have to give that a shot.
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Kilpatrick Phenol, Behringer Model D

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commodorejohn
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Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by commodorejohn » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:09 pm

Aaaaand successfully posting from OmniWeb :D
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Kilpatrick Phenol, Behringer Model D

jpstewart
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Location: Southwestern Ontario, Canada

Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by jpstewart » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:38 pm

commodorejohn wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:11 pm
As far as I understand it, NEXTSTEP CDs are rather like IRIX CDs in that they use the OS's native BSD FFS or derivative, so ISO browsers tend to get confused by them.
Yeah, I figured they'd be native when they weren't ISO 9660, but my Linux box wasn't recognizing them. I tried passing the 'ufstype=nextstep' option to the mount command to no avail earlier. Now I've discovered Linux also has a 'ufstype=nextstep-cd' option to support the 2048 byte block size of CDs. Using that, I can mount the CD just fine. If only I'd read one more line of the man page this morning....
commodorejohn wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 1:11 pm
I'm picking up some hints from some sites that the Developer CDs should be multi-architecture, so I'm going to try that, but if you get the chance to image that disc, that'd be super great.
Now that I've mounted the disk and checked it out, it seems you are correct. Mine is labelled "For RISC (HP/SUN)" but seems to contain the developer tools for all four supported NeXTStep architectures. So if you can find any developer CD you should be good to go. And if not, I can probably figure out how to get it to you.
SGI: Indigo, Indigo2, Octane, Origin 300
Sun: SPARCstation 20, Ultra 2, Blade 2500, T5240
HP: 9000/380, 425e, C8000
Digital: DECstation 5000/125

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commodorejohn
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Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by commodorejohn » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:24 pm

Well hot damn, you're right on about the mount options. I may not even have to hook up the CD-ROM drive for it now...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Kilpatrick Phenol, Behringer Model D

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commodorejohn
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Re: HP 9000 712/100 running NEXTSTEP...

Post by commodorejohn » Thu Jun 07, 2018 11:57 pm

And yes, the general NeXTSTEP 3.3 Developer CD does in fact contain the dev tools for all platforms. Now I just need to figure out where they ended up getting installed so's I can add them to the path...
Computers: Amiga 1200, DEC VAXStation 4000/60, DEC MicroPDP-11/73
Synthesizers: Roland JX-10/SH-09/MT-32/D-50, Yamaha DX7-II/V50/TX7/TG33/FB-01, Korg MS-20 Mini/ARP Odyssey/DW-8000/X5DR, Ensoniq SQ-80, E-mu Proteus/2, Kilpatrick Phenol, Behringer Model D

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